Comments on: My look at the Iraq Study Group report http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/ Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:30:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Pilgrim@ http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42095 Pilgrim@ Sat, 09 Dec 2006 01:40:40 +0000 http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/#comment-42095 "Had the country stood behind the troops, it could ahve made a world of difference."I think it was more a lack of will on the South Vietnamese that made the biggest impact.  "Each must be responsible.  His critics have not helped the situtation, they have often contributed and enabled the sitution to worsen."OK, he certainly had plenty of those, and many were quite unreasonable..I'll leave it at that <snip> "it has bought us the foundation of something good if we have the sense to do things right."For the sake of many I hope we do...I look forward to discussing this in the future.Thanks "Had the country stood behind the troops, it could ahve made a world of difference."I think it was more a lack of will on the South Vietnamese that made the biggest impact.  "Each must be responsible.  His critics have not helped the situtation, they have often contributed and enabled the sitution to worsen."OK, he certainly had plenty of those, and many were quite unreasonable..I’ll leave it at that <snip> "it has bought us the foundation of something good if we have the sense to do things right."For the sake of many I hope we do…I look forward to discussing this in the future.Thanks

]]> By: Karl http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42091 Karl Sat, 09 Dec 2006 00:07:06 +0000 http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/#comment-42091 <p>The only think wrong in Vietnam was an unmotified drafty force, and a lack of support for the war.</p> <p>Had the country stood behind the troops, it could ahve made a world of difference.</p> <p><em>The Johnson admin was not forthright with the US pop. - neither has Bush. This war is not winnable in the way Bush has defined "winning" to date. You can’t change a tribal society into a democratic state overnight - will take at least a generation in the best of circumstances.</em> </p> <p>Did I not say "make reasonable expectations?"  We need to redefine our goals, at the very least.</p> <p><em>What do you see as realistic expectations?</em></p> <p>Well maybe defining clear oobjectives in rewal terms, not vague generalitiues.</p> <p>One thing Bush enjoys is feel good talk.  Maybe if he went to a more blunt realistic talk it would be more understandable.</p> <p><em>After all the screw-ups of Bush and Co. you’re frustrated with the "critics"?</em></p> <p>Each must be responsible.  His critics have not helped the situtation, they have often contributed and enabled the sitution to worsen.</p> <p><em>3,000 lives lost….$400 Bil and what has it gotten us? There’s my frustration.</em></p> <p>Understandable, but at the same time it has bought us the foundation of something good if we have the sense to do things right.</p> <p><em>Thank you for responding in a courteous manner.</em></p> <p>Likewise.</p> <p><img alt="" src="/wp-content/plugins/editormonkey/fckeditor/editor/images/smiley/msn/regular_smile.gif" /></p> The only think wrong in Vietnam was an unmotified drafty force, and a lack of support for the war.

Had the country stood behind the troops, it could ahve made a world of difference.

The Johnson admin was not forthright with the US pop. - neither has Bush. This war is not winnable in the way Bush has defined "winning" to date. You can’t change a tribal society into a democratic state overnight - will take at least a generation in the best of circumstances. 

Did I not say "make reasonable expectations?"  We need to redefine our goals, at the very least.

What do you see as realistic expectations?

Well maybe defining clear oobjectives in rewal terms, not vague generalitiues.

One thing Bush enjoys is feel good talk.  Maybe if he went to a more blunt realistic talk it would be more understandable.

After all the screw-ups of Bush and Co. you’re frustrated with the "critics"?

Each must be responsible.  His critics have not helped the situtation, they have often contributed and enabled the sitution to worsen.

3,000 lives lost….$400 Bil and what has it gotten us? There’s my frustration.

Understandable, but at the same time it has bought us the foundation of something good if we have the sense to do things right.

Thank you for responding in a courteous manner.

Likewise.

]]> By: Pilgrim@ http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42090 Pilgrim@ Fri, 08 Dec 2006 23:16:45 +0000 http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/#comment-42090 Karl, "Like Vietnam we could win if we had the resolve to win." Sorry, I have to disagree...VietNam was at best a stalemate...the South Vietnamese gov was corrupt and had little support from the populace...the army was undisciplined and generally unwilling to fight - they preferred to have GIs do the dirty work...there was no light at the end of the tunnel.  "If we approach it from a "how do we win" standpoint, including making realistic goals and expectation, it is winnable." The Johnson admin was not forthright with the US pop. - neither has Bush. This war is not winnable in the way Bush has defined "winning" to date. You can't change a tribal society into a democratic state overnight - will take at least a generation in the best of circumstances.  What do you see as realistic expectations? After all the screw-ups of Bush and Co. you're frustrated with the "critics"?  3,000 lives lost....$400 Bil and what has it gotten us? There's my frustration. Thank you for responding in a courteous manner. Respectively, pilgrim Karl,
"Like Vietnam we could win if we had the resolve to win."
Sorry, I have to disagree…VietNam was at best a stalemate…the South Vietnamese gov was corrupt and had little support from the populace…the army was undisciplined and generally unwilling to fight - they preferred to have GIs do the dirty work…there was no light at the end of the tunnel.
 "If we approach it from a "how do we win" standpoint, including making realistic goals and expectation, it is winnable."
The Johnson admin was not forthright with the US pop. - neither has Bush. This war is not winnable in the way Bush has defined "winning" to date. You can’t change a tribal society into a democratic state overnight - will take at least a generation in the best of circumstances. 
What do you see as realistic expectations?
After all the screw-ups of Bush and Co. you’re frustrated with the "critics"? 
3,000 lives lost….$400 Bil and what has it gotten us? There’s my frustration.
Thank you for responding in a courteous manner.
Respectively,
pilgrim

]]> By: Karl http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42089 Karl Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:20:15 +0000 http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/#comment-42089 <div>> Bush has had access to all the friggin military experts in the US the past three plus years...he hasn't paid them any heed. You reap what you sow.<br /></div> <div>I don't defend the administration at all, except to say that the situation in Iraq has never been fairly reported and that has taken its toll on the resolve of the country.</div> <div><br />That said the administration has not generated the best strategy and needs to reevaluate it.  my frustration however is the ignorance of the critics, because the pentagon has thousands of people who do nothign but formulate plans and scenarios.  I wonder who is listening to them?</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>> &quot;The report seeks to make Iraq all about Israel and Iran more then about Al Qaeda'&quot;<br />> It isn't about either...that's the problem with the Bush's approach and the ISG's. There is no winning strategy in Iraq...another sad waste of our youth.</div> <div> </div> <div>I disagree.  If we approach it from a "how do we win" standpoint, including making realistic goals and expectation, it is winnable.</div> <div> </div> <div>But not when we approach it from a "how can we lose gracefully" standpoint.</div> <div> </div> <div>The anti war nuts have long complained this is a new Vietnam.  They are correct, in a classic self fulfilling prophecy.  Like Vietnam we have elected to lose, and therefore we will lose.</div> <div> </div> <div>Like Vietnam we could win if we had the resolve to win.</div> > Bush has had access to all the friggin military experts in the US the past three plus years…he hasn’t paid them any heed. You reap what you sow.
I don’t defend the administration at all, except to say that the situation in Iraq has never been fairly reported and that has taken its toll on the resolve of the country.
That said the administration has not generated the best strategy and needs to reevaluate it.  my frustration however is the ignorance of the critics, because the pentagon has thousands of people who do nothign but formulate plans and scenarios.  I wonder who is listening to them?
 
 
> &quot;The report seeks to make Iraq all about Israel and Iran more then about Al Qaeda’&quot;
> It isn’t about either…that’s the problem with the Bush’s approach and the ISG’s. There is no winning strategy in Iraq…another sad waste of our youth.
 
I disagree.  If we approach it from a "how do we win" standpoint, including making realistic goals and expectation, it is winnable.
 
But not when we approach it from a "how can we lose gracefully" standpoint.
 
The anti war nuts have long complained this is a new Vietnam.  They are correct, in a classic self fulfilling prophecy.  Like Vietnam we have elected to lose, and therefore we will lose.
 
Like Vietnam we could win if we had the resolve to win.
]]> By: Pilgrim@ http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/comment-page-1/#comment-42087 Pilgrim@ Fri, 08 Dec 2006 22:03:36 +0000 http://leaningstraightup.com/2006/12/08/my-look-at-the-iraq-study-group-report/#comment-42087 Bush has had access to all the friggin military experts in the US the past three plus years...he hasn't paid them any heed. You reap what you sow. "The report seeks to make Iraq all about Israel and Iran more then about Al Qaeda'" It isn't about either...that's the problem with the Bush's approach and the ISG's. There is no winning strategy in Iraq...another sad waste of our youth. Bush has had access to all the friggin military experts in the US the past three plus years…he hasn’t paid them any heed. You reap what you sow.
"The report seeks to make Iraq all about Israel and Iran more then about Al Qaeda’"
It isn’t about either…that’s the problem with the Bush’s approach and the ISG’s. There is no winning strategy in Iraq…another sad waste of our youth.

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