When it comes to finding liberals, no place is a bigger haven than California.  And where liberals go, so also goes social reconstruction.

The debacle called Proposition 8 really started a few years ago in 2004 when San Francisco went rogue and began issuing wedding licenses to gays, in defiance of State law.

No one was really surprised, San Francisco being the unofficial gay capital of the US, but eventually the practice was stopped after only a few months.  But the debate and lawsuits continued until the California Supreme Court ruled that California’s equal protection clause granted gays the right to marry.

So in response, Prop 8 was filed to amend the state’s constitution and was approved by the voters.  While legal changes remain, at this moment, only hetero marriage is recognized in California.

So that is the bare bones of the current problem in California.  California, which voted to elect Obama 60% to 37% instead opposed gay marriage 52% to 48%.

This is hard to fathom, unless you admit that marriage is a much deeper issue to a lot of people than it seems.

The problem I have in this debate is that I can see both issues.  I understand the desire to ‘protect’ family values, perhaps due to my evangelical upbringing.

But on the other hand, behind the gaudy gay pride parades and Hollywood stereotypes, we are dealing with real people.  The last few years have required me to dust off my beliefs and consider them in stark light.

One of my friend’s son is gay.  When i dropped by there a year or two ago, i stopped in and had dinner with her, him and his partner.  I did not see two repulsive degenerates as some would represent them, nor did I see two social activists who are intent on changing the world and destroying marriage.

I saw two men who cared about each other.  While my own feelings about same sex attraction still bear the pull of religious upbringing, I can at least recognize that they are just that:  my feelings, and not necessarily truth.  I have a lot of room to grow in understanding on the whole concept.

Considering that, I talked to my friend (we’ll call her “L“) about the election results.  Actually she responded to my post congratulating Obama, but her real passion was for prop 8.  Here is what she said:

…a big WTF!?!?!? about Californians who clearly care more about a damn chicken than their own fellow human beings. It amazes me that we passed both 2 and 8. I wonder how long it will be before gays are real humans.

I asked her to explain, not being totally in the know as to California’s ballot initiatives.

Prop 2 was actually something I voted for. But it just amazes me that we can have compassion for animals raised for food but not other humans. You’d think blacks in particular would have compassion for the plight of gay people. It wasn’t that long ago that they couldn’t marry a white person if they so chose.

Dumbshits! Here’s where you can read about Prop 2 http://www. yesonprop2. com/

I responded:

A part of me is surprised that it passed, what with the overwhelming “blueness” of the state, but then again, every time the subject comes up there, gay marriage goes down.

Not sure what to make of it. Which is paramount, the will of the people or the rights of gays.

And this is my conflict when considering the debacle presently underway in California.

Which is preeminent:  The will of the people or the principles of equality in our constitution(s)?

Prop 8 in California may decide it forever.  Then again, it may not.  One of the core issues here is that the legislature in California did not do its job and legislate this.  It instead allowed the Court to determine it.

The will of the people is a powerful force, but you have to remember it is not the only force to be reckoned with, nor is it always consistent.  The people are fickle, selfish and sometimes totally wrong.

Ending slavery may or may not have happened if it solely depended on what people thought.

Abortion is another area that shows the ineffectiveness of the people.  The polls consistently show people opposed to abortion yet Roe v Wade continues to make the practice legal.

Even Federalism, the ability of states to determine their own courses are not free to do anything the people vote on.  See again Roe Wade.

So the principles of freedom take precedence to the voice of the people all the time.  I can cite more examples, many of which also show the problems of judicial activism versus legislative responsibility, but you get the point.

A conversation a couple years ago with a gay friend of a friend also has made me reconsider my position.  “D” and I and I had a discussion on civil unions versus marriage, and seeing the issue form the perspective of someone gay really made me reconsider some of my preconceptions.  He described in detail many limitations and restrictions that exist for a gay couple which I had not considered, many that could be easily overcome, but many that cannot.

And finally, a coworker, “T” has also caused me to consider that even in the gay community, diversity exists in regard to these issues.  He doesn’t care about the marriage debate, but I would imagine he would be happier knowing that is an option.

If the California proposition stands, and gay marriage is banned in California, the matter will surely make its way to the Scotus, and I am convinced that the Scotus will try to overturn it, if not this year, then soon. 

And maybe they would be right to do so.  As I have said, while my religious upbringing causes me to have some trepidation, it is clear is that Gay’s really are denied equal protection in regards to many aspects of social equality, and that will never go away.

Another ugly truth is that no matter what state laws are passed, certain federal rights and benefits are conferred only to straight people, such as federal income tax exemptions and social security benefits.  As such, the inequality will never go away no matter what states do.

I have long since taken an unusual stance, suggesting that the real problem is not that conservatives want to protect marriage, and gays want to co-opt marriage. 

In reality the core issue is the social rights and responsibilities that accompany marriage, and the fact that these rights are tightly controlled by the government.

In other words, the problem is that according to the federal government, marriage is a legal institution, not a religious or social one.

As long as the government confers what marriage is, who can marry and what benefits that marriage brings, the problems will never go away.

In our discussion I asked “D” this question:

If you could be granted all the rights you are either denied or have only limited rights to presently, if the Federal government conferred you equal status for taxes and SS, but did not use the word marriage (assume civil union or domestic partner), would you be satisfied and accept that? Or is there special significance to the word marriage?

Is it the label or the standing that matters.

He replied:

The law…uses the word marriage. The legal precedent…is attached…to “marriage”.

If every straight couple in the country is willing to let go of their right to marriage and forever call it “civil unions”, across the board, there will be equality– and you will have full agreement on this from gays (I guarantee it!).

I think he is right. 

This again shows that the real problem is the corruption of what marriage was intended to be, the religious or social joining of people, and its replacement with the legal defining and co-opting of marriage by our government for its own control of the people.

My solution to the problem is here.

As this continues to unfold, it makes me sad.  The anti prop 8 people are taking drastic action against its supporters, which is wrong.  They have the right to be upset, but violence is abhorrent, and only serves to demonize them as radicals.  There are better ways to deal with the issue then attacking little old ladies whose sin is to be old fashioned.

For their paer the supporters are not considering how this affects people, being closed minded to the faces behind the laws.

I hope though that all sides slow down and consider that this is not just about laws, and legalities.  It is not just about rights and responsibilities.  And it is not just about family values.

It is also about principles and it is about people.  There are real people behind the laws who have hopes and dreams, and there are core principles of our country that are in play, and we forget these things at our peril.

I have no other answers.  i stand athwart my belief in democracy, my belief in the principles embodied in our constitution, my values and upbringing and my compassion to the people involved on both sides of the issue.

This like so many other issues rolling around in my head, is a work in progress.

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